Maggie, me and good old Bernard
March 1, 2023, 7:29 am , by Richard Lutz
RICHARD LUTZ remembers bumping into the late Sir Bernard Ingham
Many years ago, actually many decades ago, I ran into Sir Bernard Ingham, who died this week and was at one time Margaret Thatcher’s chief press secretary.
He was a bruiser, a former Labour Party man (and ex-writer for the liberal Guardian) who steadfastly backed Maggie in her heyday. Here’s what happened:
I was asked to go to Kyiv (then simply good old fashioned Kiev) to interview Mrs Thatcher. Don’t ask, the reasons were all too arcane. I called Downing Street to get the nod for a tv sitdown.
The Rottweiler at the gate was Ingham. His staff demanded a list of questions. It was weeks before the actual recording. It seemed impossible, if not ludicrous. Things change. Events pop up. Stories violently erupt. But no list, alas, no interview, Ingham’s dogsbodies bluntly told me.
I slapped out the questions and sent them in. And then forgot what I had written. They were agreed. A month later, my crew and I were in the Ukrainian capital. I was met by the grumpy bulk of Bernard Ingham. He had the list in his paws. He looked down at me. He barked: “These are the questions your office filed with us. These are the questions you will ask The Prime Minister.”
I was ushered into the room where Thatcher was adding a final dab of make up before she hit the cameras. We were in a grand palace, hardly Soviet or even glasnost. Just old fashioned and ornate. “I do love America,” she said as she looked in the mirror and clocked my accent. “Especially your Mr Reagan.”
I didn’t respond. “I have the outline for the interview.” I said. She turned from the mirror. “Oh, don’t worry about Bernard.” She waved away the paperwork. “He goes on a bit. Ask me whatever you want.” I did. And above is a picture of that interview in Kyiv with an unhappy Ingham (on the right) brooding over us as I blithely ignored his insistence on sticking to a line.
Thatcher enjoyed a good old bunfight
As I remember, I asked about the current hot potato regarding an undercover Army unit in Gibraltar that killed three unarmed members of the IRA. Maggie took it on the chin and banged on about national security. The story had emerged on a tv programme and, ultimately, the interview moved onto the powers and responsibilities of the media. Bernard got grumpier and twitchier.
I’m on the left edge of the photo, a million miles from the forgotten pile of banal questions. I did my job. It was a tough interview rather than a lame softball lob. Whether you hated or loved Thatcher – and it was one or the other – at least she liked a good bunfight.
Looking back, I sometimes wonder if she didn’t bounce her Rottweiler into the long grass just to give him a quick kick in the butt to remind him who ran the show. Who knows?
Things moved on. The Ukraine trip suddenly lurched in a new direction the next day when an old WW2 Soviet veteran came up and through an interpreter asked if I could find his lost brother in the English city of Leicester. The interpreter said: “His older brother was a tank commander and kept on driving west until he met the Allies. Then he found his way to England. He never looked back.”
I found the older brother through the Ukrainian club in Leicester. He had become as British as an afternoon cup of tea. I showed him the out-takes of the interview with his brother back in Kyiv. He cried, watched the rushes again and we talked about me taking him back for a reunion. But it never happened. Things moved on. They always do.
share this post!
Old tv colleague
Nice memories
Alan Holland
I wonder if many subsequent prime ministers would have the confidence to sit down for an unscripted tv interview?
Well done for finding that brother. Many Ukrainians were conscripted into the German army and deliberately surrendered on the Western front. They knew their fate if the Russians got them. Very many settled in Leicester and Rugby for some reason. A close friend was born to two of them, He had been in field blue, she had been taken to Germany as slave labour. I was lucky enough to meet many more at an Orthodox christening. Hard drinking men full of stories and much laughter. Fascinating.
Pogus C
Or was the Alsation interviewing the Rottweiler
Sarah Silver
Good story
Gary Bailey
Fascinating
Anne Bank
It’s on Twitter.
Kaye Oswald
All about:
Power, the want of power, love of a brother & how time truly does change things.
Will Travel
An eye opener
Will Mapplebeck
This was excellent Reminded me of the time I interviewed bernard ingham and he somewhat grumpily gave his regards to my dad. (They had been best of enemies in the 1960s on Yorkshire regional newspapers)
Subscribe to new posts.